AuthorTopic: Overheating HELP!!!  (Read 11894 times)

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miraclepieco

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Overheating HELP!!!
« on: July 26, 2014, 12:35:50 AM »
Okay folks, this one is going to literally drive me out of the rat rodding hobby. Some of you are familiar with my ongoing heating issues with my '28 Ford sedan.  I have spent thousands of dollars and changed literally every component in the cooling system INCLUDING THE ENGINE!  I have tried 2 radiators, a stock-style 3-row Mustang and a 4-row aluminum.  Two water pumps, a stock and a FlowKooler Hi-Volume. Multiple thermostat changes, starting with a 180, going to a 160 (with an air bleed), and no thermostat at all. I have re-jetted the carb richer. I have tried timing settings from 0 to 18 initial. I have used both a vacuum pump and a Spill-Free funnel to make sure there is no air in the system. I have added a coolant overflow. I have verified that the radiator hoses are not collapsing. I have added Water Wetter. I have tried multiple fan thermostats (yes the fan is blowing the proper direction). Tried new radiator caps from 7 up to 18 lbs. I have verified the gauge accuracy with an infrared laser thermometer. And the problem remains constant - electric fan runs continuously, engine gradually heats up to 230 degrees at which point I shut it down and sit for a half hour.

I am at the point where I must simply sell or part out this car - there is nothing more to be done...  ???  HELP!!!

Oh yeah, for those who don't know, this is a Chevy 350/350 combo. The engine is above the radiator, but it has a filler neck at the high point.  Here's a pic: 
« Last Edit: July 26, 2014, 12:52:28 AM by miraclepieco »

Offline Greybeards Customs

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Re: Overheating HELP!!!
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2014, 08:44:56 AM »
will it run hot at an idle from cold or is it when you are driving ? you should be able to idle for at least 30 min without overheating from a cold start . ......... scratching my beard here !
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Re: Overheating HELP!!!
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2014, 08:48:51 AM »
you should be able to drive the car without even having a fan if you have adequate coolant capacity and circulation sitting still is another story . Rodger give me a call today if you can or tonight either way . I'm heading to virginia for a week so I will be in the car all night 205-249-7680 -- Greg
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Offline Rubberhead

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Re: Overheating HELP!!!
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2014, 10:35:16 AM »
Is it possible that you used incorrect head and/or intake gaskets on both engines and they are blocking coolant ports? Grasping at straws here...

Offline hotwheels

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Re: Overheating HELP!!!
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2014, 04:47:37 AM »
I know all the work you have done to get this cooling issue undercontrol, but what is the possibility that the fan isn't big enough to pull enough air through the radiator? Maybe by a small pusher to put on the front and keep the puller on the back side....?
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Offline Jeepenstein

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Overheating HELP!!!
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2014, 11:07:33 AM »
Fan shroud to make sure all air possible is pulling through the rad. Just one thing that came to mind.
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Overheating HELP!!!
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2014, 11:09:42 AM »
I would also suggest one other thing to try.

Undo the rad and make it the highest point in your system and be positive there is no air in the system. The rad lower than the highest point could have air in the engine.

Once it's bled 100% for sure it can be put back.
1993 Jeep Yj aka Jeepenstein

miraclepieco

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Re: Overheating HELP!!!
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2014, 12:04:17 PM »
Undo the rad and make it the highest point in your system and be positive there is no air in the system. The rad lower than the highest point could have air in the engine. Once it's bled 100% for sure it can be put back.

I think you're on the right track: it may be something to do with the engine higher than the radiator. However lots of cars run in this configuration - some even have the radiator horizontal below the engine between the frame rails. To eliminate air in the system I have used both a vacuum pump and the Spill-Free funnel system. The thermostat has an air bleed to let bubbles out. The system takes a full 4 gallons when I fill it. There SHOULD BE no air left, but there COULD BE. I really can't move the radiator up and down (the preformed hoses kinda dictate where it will sit) but I will try jacking the front of the car up real high to encourage air movement up to the cap.

Fan shroud to make sure all air possible is pulling through the rad.

Electric fans kinda have their own integral shroud. I don't know how I could improve on it?

what is the possibility that the fan isn't big enough to pull enough air through the radiator? Maybe by a small pusher to put on the front and keep the puller on the back side....?

I don't think the fan is the issue because it overheats on the freeway just as bad. Could the spring and frame crossmember in front of the radiator could be deflecting air up over the top of the radiator?

Is it possible that you used incorrect head and/or intake gaskets on both engines and they are blocking coolant ports?

Overheating has been constant through two engines and three sets of head gaskets, so that's not likely. The reason I changed engines was that I suspected some plugged coolant passages on the old engine, but it made no difference.

I have heard other suggestions that I may have a reverse rotation water pump. However I have had two different pumps on this - not likely both of them would be reverse rotation, especially the old factory shorty pump - those didn't come in reverse rotation.

My last car (the '34 Scrap Rod PU) had this same cooling system setup; it held 180 idling for 20 minutes in 100-degree weather. The only difference is the engine higher than the radiator.

I will try changing my upper hose configuration to make less of an incline. I also will install a spring inside my lower radiator hose - I checked that it was not collapsing by revving it up in the garage, but maybe in actual driving conditions it is.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. If anything else comes to mind please post!
« Last Edit: July 27, 2014, 12:16:34 PM by miraclepieco »

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Re: Overheating HELP!!!
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2014, 01:34:53 PM »
I think that you've changed just about everything except for the intake manifold, that seems to be the common denominator. Is it possible that a coolant port in the intake is clogged?

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Overheating HELP!!!
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2014, 04:30:49 PM »
I just noticed in the pic that both outlet and inlet are on the same side of the rad. Have all the rads been same side inlet and outlet?

I was told not too long ago by a really good builder that you should always do opposing sides cause there is a chance that under flow the coolant takes the quickest path out and bypasses the fins.

Just throwing that out there cause I will be running a 6.8l V10 and I'm told a 4" thick aluminum and I'm told that a walker z series will do the job easily and that engine builds crazy heat.

As far as the shroud I think it vital to ensure there are no gaps of any sort allowing that fan to bypass pulling through the cooling fins.

Is it completely sealed?

Jeff
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Overheating HELP!!!
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2014, 04:31:56 PM »
As in tight to the rad no gaps
1993 Jeep Yj aka Jeepenstein

miraclepieco

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Re: Overheating HELP!!!
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2014, 11:02:41 PM »
Jeepenstein: Yes, my inlet/outlet are on the same side, the stock Mustang configuration, and the same as my previous radiator which cooled very well.  There is a "302 Conversion" radiator with the inlet on the opposite side; after what you said I kinda wish I'd gotten one.

Rubberhead: Awesome catch on the intake manifold being the same unit. Yes, I have the fan sealed to the radiator with rubber hose around the edge (mostly to cushion and protect the radiator, but also serves as a seal).

But there is one more thing that has transferred over from the old engine to the new that may be the problem...the DISTRIBUTOR.

On a whim I sucked through the distributor vacuum hose to check advance function. Wowie, blown diaphragm! This affects engine cooling in two ways:
1) improper ignition advance, and 2) an effective vacuum leak causing the engine to run lean. Since the mechanism is enclosed in the pod I didn't find it with my usual practice of spraying starting fluid on the junctions to note a change in idle speed.  I have a rebuilt distributor here that I will install Monday. Yikes, is it possible I have spent a couple thousand dollars due to a distributor diaphragm????

This is the first and only thing I've found that was actually wrong, so just maybe this will fix it. Keep your fingers crossed!
« Last Edit: July 28, 2014, 12:32:54 AM by miraclepieco »

Offline hotwheels

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Re: Overheating HELP!!!
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2014, 04:35:42 AM »
fingers crossed.....
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Re: Overheating HELP!!!
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2014, 05:00:03 AM »
also got them crossed
life is a ride where you slide into heaven sideways on 4 flats blown motor saying Thank you God what a ride!!!!!

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Re: Overheating HELP!!!
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2014, 06:44:28 AM »
I think that you've changed just about everything except for the intake manifold, that seems to be the common denominator. Is it possible that a coolant port in the intake is clogged?

Rodger if the distributor does not fix your issue, I have an intake you can try.

My fingers are crossed as well.
David

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Re: Overheating HELP!!!
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2014, 03:50:37 PM »
Did the distributor change fix your problem?

miraclepieco

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Re: Overheating HELP!!!
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2014, 11:08:47 PM »
Did the distributor change fix your problem?

Unfortunately, no.  Ordering a SPAL fan now; they're supposed to be good.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2014, 02:20:17 AM by miraclepieco »

Offline dcacjc

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Re: Overheating HELP!!!
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2014, 07:25:17 PM »
Let me know if you want to try the intake
David

miraclepieco

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Re: Overheating HELP!!!
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2014, 10:31:29 PM »
Installed the new Spal 16" curved blade fan today, with a makeshift shroud. Couldn't test drive it due to thunderstorms; maybe tomorrow. The motor is nearly twice the size of the old fan, and the unit weighs about double. Spals are reputed to be super-duty...hope my fusebox can handle the load...   
« Last Edit: August 12, 2014, 10:35:13 PM by miraclepieco »

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Re: Overheating HELP!!!
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2014, 11:02:29 AM »
that is the fan I used on my sedan and its way more powerful than most of the economy fans , but it's three times the price . My fingers are crossed for you .
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Re: Overheating HELP!!!
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2014, 11:20:48 AM »
Aww whats a little rain  :P  Still got fingers crossed
life is a ride where you slide into heaven sideways on 4 flats blown motor saying Thank you God what a ride!!!!!

miraclepieco

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Re: Overheating HELP!!!
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2014, 01:25:22 PM »
that is the fan I used on my sedan and its way more powerful than most of the economy fans , but it's three times the price .

Yeah, ha ha, somehow I seem to be ending up with a bunch of high-dollar stuff on my low-buck hot rod!

From what I've heard, this fan pulls so hard that, even with the engine off,  it will suck the car down the highway like an airplane propeller!   :o

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Re: Overheating HELP!!!
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2014, 03:35:57 PM »
Looks great, did you get a chance to try it out today?

miraclepieco

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Re: Overheating HELP!!!
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2014, 06:33:16 PM »
Hey Greg, what amp fuse did you have to use with that fan? The 20-amp that came in my wiring harness blew instantly. Will installing a larger amperage fuse (30 amp) jeopardize my wiring or relay?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2014, 02:50:32 AM by miraclepieco »

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Re: Overheating HELP!!!
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2014, 06:55:26 PM »
Hey Greg, what amp fuse did you have to use with that fan? The 20-amp that came in my wiring harness blew instantly. Will installing a larger amperage fuse (50 amp) jeopardize my wiring or relay?
Holy crap... :o

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