AuthorTopic: WHY IS IT SO MUCH TROUBLE ???  (Read 11207 times)

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Offline Sky

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WHY IS IT SO MUCH TROUBLE ???
« on: February 21, 2012, 03:44:50 AM »
I'm a mod on a few forums and I have a particular argument every few days . I see people do amazing builds spending lots of money BUT they are ok welders at best . HUH you say WTF is this about ??? Well it's about """" FISH PLATING """ If you are not a highly trained and experienced pro welder and are making but welds on an existing frame or building one from scratch , USE FISH PLATES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But , try to tell people that and they act like you called their kid ugly !!!! So why will someone who is spending countless hours and dollars on a build be so resistant to a common safety practice ?????
What is this """ stock restoration """ thing you speak of ????

Offline RodNResto

Re: WHY IS IT SO MUCH TROUBLE ???
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2012, 03:59:14 AM »
it's an extra piece to the puzzle and they can't be bothered taking the time to do it right. I prefer the extra peace of mind knowing they are there.

Offline hotwheels

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Re: WHY IS IT SO MUCH TROUBLE ???
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2012, 04:00:17 AM »
Sadly some take it as criticism. I totally agree on fish plates, i actually used them on the S10 frame i modified......I guess some people think that their welds will be stronger then an extra piece of metal.....I would actually be scared to drive something that was welded and not plated.
Love building rat rods, driving mustangs, and building websites.

Offline obama

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Re: WHY IS IT SO MUCH TROUBLE ???
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2012, 09:10:53 AM »
Some sure get touchy on the subject of welding. Frames that are z'd then butt welded together, ground smooth, then bondo, and paint (gee that sure look's nice) I'v welded for years, which just means I may have done it wrong, or poorly for years, experience at doing it wrong, does not make it right. I know some fair welding can be made good with a extra plate, or two.
Why folk's are so touchy on this, I do not understand.

Offline billy

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Re: WHY IS IT SO MUCH TROUBLE ???
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2012, 09:28:09 AM »
when my 63 willys frame cracked i had the guy do a fishplate.
he said it wasnt needed.
i told him to do it anyway.
i dont practice what i preach
because i am not the kind of man i am preaching to.

Offline Sky

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Re: WHY IS IT SO MUCH TROUBLE ???
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2012, 03:46:32 PM »
 Here is the latest  -----
 I posted -----
 """ Stephen , pardon me for butting in but I had to ask . Are you planning on fish plating those but joints on that frame ??? It's a beautiful job but just not completely safe without fish plating . Really do NOT mean to offend and I realize that folks fab hundreds of frames every year without it but any engineer will back me up on this . You are obviously putting a lot of labor and passion into your build and it would be sad to see it become one of the few each year with catastrophic failure . Especially if someone gets hurt . Just my couple of pennies worth of thought . """

 And he replied ----
 """ No im not going to fish plate it as it is not nessesary in my opinion, i v built/modified various chassis over the year so im happy with the strength in it, it will be far stronger than original"""

 Here is his frame and he is putting a god amount of HP in the car


 
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 03:48:03 PM by Sky »
What is this """ stock restoration """ thing you speak of ????

Offline Sky

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Re: WHY IS IT SO MUCH TROUBLE ???
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2012, 03:55:54 PM »
 
 Then other club members started posting -----

 """ Its plenty strong enough for what you're putting through the axle as long as the welds are well penetrated. I have a 4 bar link on mine so the suspension arrangement is different but my chassis isn't fish plated either. No flex on wheels up launches with 500hp running through the axle. Looks neat so far Stephen. """

 And ----

 """  i have  devon, that runs 406ci sbc thats been built for 20 years and i have,nt broken that yet """

 And a message I got from one member ---

 """ Why don't you go play somewhere sky Stephen's frame is fine and you should not try to teach your grandma how to make tea build your own stuff and stop telling others how to do that which you know not ! """
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 03:56:41 PM by Sky »
What is this """ stock restoration """ thing you speak of ????

Offline hotwheels

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Re: WHY IS IT SO MUCH TROUBLE ???
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2012, 07:00:09 PM »
I'm with you sky, i see exactly where i would fish plate that, it only takes a little extra time. Whether the welds are strong enough in thought or not, why not guarantee the strength?
Love building rat rods, driving mustangs, and building websites.

Offline Sky

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Re: WHY IS IT SO MUCH TROUBLE ???
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2012, 07:07:11 PM »
 Yep , and it's not just the welds . Nobody knows if the mig wire they are using is pure or if the two ends being butt welded have any flaws !!! And I would tell anyone THERE IS A REASON THEY INSPECT WELDS ON AIRCRAFT/SHIPS/NUKE PLANTS AS PART OF FREQUENT OR MONTHLY INSPECTIONS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EVEN THE BEST WELDERS IN THE WORLD HAVE FLAWED WELDS SOME TIMES !!!!!!!!!!!!!
What is this """ stock restoration """ thing you speak of ????

Offline hotwheels

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Re: WHY IS IT SO MUCH TROUBLE ???
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2012, 07:10:44 PM »
Yup...........we have welders at the plant i work for that fail welds every now and then.
Love building rat rods, driving mustangs, and building websites.

Offline obama

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Re: WHY IS IT SO MUCH TROUBLE ???
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2012, 08:03:37 PM »
Sounds like you been hang'n round with touchy folks forum wise, (or not wise)
Glad ya joined us.

Offline Sky

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Re: WHY IS IT SO MUCH TROUBLE ???
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2012, 03:11:42 AM »

 Thanks , I'm pretty glad I joined as well . I'm keeping my fingers crossed this one doesn't go the way hamb and others did . I work very hard on the forums I moderate on to rip new assholes in folks who get unfriendly / slagging people  or give dangerous advise but my own personal pet peeve are the people who join just to get a part or copy pics and never participate .    >:(
What is this """ stock restoration """ thing you speak of ????

Offline hotwheels

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Re: WHY IS IT SO MUCH TROUBLE ???
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2012, 04:33:50 AM »
One thing i can guarantee you is this will not become H.A.M.B or anything like that..........I have been running sites for years now and the reason i started learning to build and run websites was the fact i couldn't stand all the negative attitudes on other sites.....My other sites, my main and only real rule is no banning. I believe if a guy asks a question, instead of telling them to "search", answer them or give them a link. We are not all born with a ton of knowledge in our hobby and the more help i can do to help others enjoy our hobby, the better we'll all feel.......if that makes any sense..If you look at this site, you won't find a rules book........If you wanna cuss, cuss. If you wanna share an opinion that may not be liked by everyone, share that opinion....One down fall for me i recon, is that most people like structure and hard core rules and moderation and since my sites don't offer that, my sites end up not being for everyone...I was really surprised at how many people like the hard core attitude of a website and i just can't roll like that.....I want people to feel free to share, post, etc..........
Love building rat rods, driving mustangs, and building websites.

Offline RodNResto

Re: WHY IS IT SO MUCH TROUBLE ???
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2012, 01:58:58 PM »
good attitude and well said mate :)

Offline Sky

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Re: WHY IS IT SO MUCH TROUBLE ???
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2012, 06:53:56 PM »
One thing i can guarantee you is this will not become H.A.M.B or anything like that..........I have been running sites for years now and the reason i started learning to build and run websites was the fact i couldn't stand all the negative attitudes on other sites.....My other sites, my main and only real rule is no banning. I believe if a guy asks a question, instead of telling them to "search", answer them or give them a link. We are not all born with a ton of knowledge in our hobby and the more help i can do to help others enjoy our hobby, the better we'll all feel.......if that makes any sense..If you look at this site, you won't find a rules book........If you wanna cuss, cuss. If you wanna share an opinion that may not be liked by everyone, share that opinion....One down fall for me i recon, is that most people like structure and hard core rules and moderation and since my sites don't offer that, my sites end up not being for everyone...I was really surprised at how many people like the hard core attitude of a website and i just can't roll like that.....I want people to feel free to share, post, etc..........

 SWEET !!!!!! I love that thinking !!!!! I always find myself jumping in to help people who post questions on forums . They will ask something that I know many on the site could and should answer but no one bothers to  answer  so even when I don't know the answer I'll try to research it and find them an answer . That  is the type of niceness that I received so many years ago  as a young punk from older car guys and that is why I got into cars and scoots . .
What is this """ stock restoration """ thing you speak of ????

Offline hotwheels

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Re: WHY IS IT SO MUCH TROUBLE ???
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2012, 06:55:39 PM »
I do the same thing sky........If i can find an answer or know the answer, i will let em know. Even if i have seen the question asked before, i will still answer. Period.............and thanks rodnresto, appreciate the kudos.
Love building rat rods, driving mustangs, and building websites.

Offline Sky

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Re: WHY IS IT SO MUCH TROUBLE ???
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2012, 11:15:09 PM »
I do the same thing sky........If i can find an answer or know the answer, i will let em know. Even if i have seen the question asked before, i will still answer. Period.............and thanks rodnresto, appreciate the kudos.

 That is because great twisted minds think alike lol :D
What is this """ stock restoration """ thing you speak of ????

Offline hotwheels

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Re: WHY IS IT SO MUCH TROUBLE ???
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2012, 05:19:56 AM »
Hell yea..........
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Offline oldskool49

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Re: WHY IS IT SO MUCH TROUBLE ???
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2012, 06:37:23 AM »
I'm primarly an oldskool gas welder, I know exhaust work. Never got into mig/tig. The rags that put out articals about them I will read and make mental notes for one day??? I just started hearing about this fish plate. So with that said HW when I come up to Cheyenne, probly in the next yr or so I would like a demo. Not that I would ever use it but to help broden my knowledge. Thanks guys. Through your words I can put a picture.

Oh on the gas end I can weld with out rod. And the best rod was old Sakeway, King Suppers shopping carts.

 8)
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Offline Sky

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Re: WHY IS IT SO MUCH TROUBLE ???
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2012, 02:08:54 PM »
I'm primarly an oldskool gas welder, I know exhaust work. Never got into mig/tig. The rags that put out articals about them I will read and make mental notes for one day??? I just started hearing about this fish plate. So with that said HW when I come up to Cheyenne, probly in the next yr or so I would like a demo. Not that I would ever use it but to help broden my knowledge. Thanks guys. Through your words I can put a picture.

Oh on the gas end I can weld with out rod. And the best rod was old Sakeway, King Suppers shopping carts.

 8)

 All's fish platting is , is a plate welded over the welded joint in a frame . Nobody can say 100% that their weld will never fail . So to add a goodly bit of security , you weld a plate over the joined section . This adds a lot of strength to that joint . As long as it's ant least 1/8th plate . Some blokes will fishplate with such thin plate ( trying to keep the look as smooth as possible ) that it will be zero or very little help if their main join weld were to fail . Oh and shopping carts for welding sticks lololol NOW THAT'S RAT RODDING !!!!!! :D
« Last Edit: March 18, 2012, 02:18:44 PM by Sky »
What is this """ stock restoration """ thing you speak of ????

Offline oldskool49

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Re: WHY IS IT SO MUCH TROUBLE ???
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2012, 03:16:24 PM »
No re-cycling the old shopping carts. Besides save money on stick. Thanks for the update on the fish plate. So would you do that to a butt joint or a corner or is it just straight pieces? Or just where you feel that the most stress would be ?



 8)


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Offline Sky

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Re: WHY IS IT SO MUCH TROUBLE ???
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2012, 02:25:20 PM »
No re-cycling the old shopping carts. Besides save money on stick. Thanks for the update on the fish plate. So would you do that to a butt joint or a corner or is it just straight pieces? Or just where you feel that the most stress would be ?



 8)

 All joins on a frame should either be fish platted or gusseted !!!!!  One of the excuses I've heard for not doing it is that they are putting in a small/weak motor like a stock straight 6 . Then you see that same person a couple years later drop a big block into the same frame on a rebuild !!!!! No matter what it should be done !!!!! I don't care if they want to risk your own safety , but if they drive it on the street or track , they are putting others at risk if a weld should fail !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >:(
What is this """ stock restoration """ thing you speak of ????

Offline hotwheels

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Re: WHY IS IT SO MUCH TROUBLE ???
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2012, 02:33:29 PM »
I'm with you sky, if you get a chance to fish plate or gusset, git r dun..........it only takes a few extra minutes and it will lead to a better build in my opinion......i have seen post's where people flat out refuse to fish plate........to each their own i recon.
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Offline ratt71

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Re: WHY IS IT SO MUCH TROUBLE ???
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2013, 01:01:14 PM »
I agree with all you guys on the fish plates/gussets. I am  certified in fcaw 3g and  gmaw 1g and if you look closely at then pics on boys truck I plated every where I could. Not that i dont trust my welds but if a.lil bit more fab time helps secure more safety I'm up for it! I've seen bids on YouTube where guys stuff breaks in half! I don't wanna b one of those statistics!!

Offline chopper york

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Re: WHY IS IT SO MUCH TROUBLE ???
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2013, 03:43:20 PM »
We get enough shit from within our own ranks,best not to give the man the ammo too ;)

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