AuthorTopic: Fact or Friction  (Read 6798 times)

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Offline oldskool49

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Fact or Friction
« on: September 24, 2014, 04:06:11 AM »
If most are like me you forget some of the little things. And when grooming a young gearhead there are things that are important.
So in my quest of not being able to sleep and I did sign on for an interesting course I will pass the info on.

When you buy engine oil, it's important to know the oil's viscosity, a property that corresponds roughly to its thickness. The less viscous the oil, the more smoothly it moves through your engine and lubricates the moving parts. The best engine oils have a viscosity that is neither so high (thick) that it will barely flow or so low (thin) that it will slip through your engine like water.
There are two ways in which oil viscosity is measured: single grade and multi-grade. SAE 30 is a typical single-grade rating. That means that an organization called the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) ran the oil through a standardized tube-like device and timed how long it took, in seconds, to flow from one end to the other. The viscosity rating is the number of seconds rounded to the nearest multiple of ten. Thus, SAE 30 oil takes approximately 30 seconds to flow through the tube. This single viscosity rating is sometimes called the oil's "weight."
Unfortunately, oil changes its viscosity with temperature and the single viscosity rating only represents the flow of oil when it's warm. What if you need to start your car on a cold winter morning? The oil will flow more slowly, so the cold viscosity rating is important too. A multi-grade rating gives you both the hot and cold viscosities. For 10W-30 oil, the 30 is the same as the SAE 30 viscosity rating for warm oil, but the 10W is the viscosity rating for cold oil, according to a standardized rating system developed by the SAE for winter oil use.
And that's what the "W" stands for: "winter."
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Offline oldskool49

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Re: Fact or Friction
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2014, 04:11:00 AM »
Back in the 1970s, when synthetic engine oils (those based not on petroleum but on chemical base stocks such as polyalphaolefins) first became popular, they didn't always play well with the seals and gaskets in the car's engine. They could cause the seals to shrink in ways that petroleum-based oils did not, resulting in those messy oil leaks that would mysteriously appear in your car's parking space. Some people still fear that synthetic oil will cause leaks and so they continue to use petroleum-based oils instead.
These fears are largely unfounded. Oil manufacturers long ago learned to reformulate synthetic oil so that seal shrinkage doesn't occur. Still, there's a way in which synthetic oil can cause a leak, at least when you use it in an older car that's been operating for years on a petroleum-based oil. The synthetic oil can clean oil sludge off the seals that may actually have been blocking off tiny cracks in the seals, revealing leaks that have been there all along. This probably won't be a problem on newer cars, but if you're still driving a car that's more than, say, 15 years old, you might not want to make a sudden decision to switch to a synthetic oil.
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Offline hotwheels

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Re: Fact or Friction
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2014, 12:10:01 PM »
That is a fact. I work in the oil industry and i always tell people, if you broke a car in or bought a used car, stay with what ever oil was in it. If it was a 10w-30, stay with that oil and don't move to synthetic. If you rebuilt a motor and are firing it up for the first time, if you can afford it, break it in with synthetic and continue using synthetic. Another fiction is the 3 month or 3,000 miles, your engine oil will last upwards of 10,000 miles. The gasoline we burn is lower in sulfur, same with diesel fuels. Because they don't have all the sulfur content, your engine actually stays cleaner and the oil last longer because all it has to do is actually lube the engine instead of cleaning at the same time. The sulfur and lead in gasoline is what caused all the gumming up in the heads. Most will find if they pop their valve covers, the heads are pretty darn clean. Oil companies then started to loose money because people weren't buying as much motor oil, so they went on a media frenzy and pushed the 3 month or 3,000 miles to gain a profit once again on motor oil.
Look at your new vehicles that are being sold, companies are now willing to offer free oil changes. If you look at that info, they are only changing the oil every 10 to 12,000 miles........
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Offline oldskool49

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Re: Fact or Friction
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2014, 12:47:16 PM »
True.. And from all of the hype that still floats around. I stay syn in my truck and nothing but RP in Blue. When I worked at Pep Boys part of the training was oils and intervals. The one thing that I agree with is that if you dont use a syn oil and your ride is high miles then go with a high mileage oil. Save on extra additives that are not needed.

Be interesting to see what next weeks class will bring.

Oops did I say class ?
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Offline obama

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Re: Fact or Friction
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2014, 09:43:55 PM »
Good stuff.

Offline hotwheels

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Re: Fact or Friction
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2014, 11:53:38 AM »
Great class........Oops. LOL
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Offline lowboy

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Re: Fact or Friction
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2014, 02:51:54 PM »
Good info to have Now I won't stress nearly as bad when MsDee's truck goes over (just don't tell her that :P ) She's bad about not telling me when it's do and I don't drive it enouph Just paid for it and the gas
life is a ride where you slide into heaven sideways on 4 flats blown motor saying Thank you God what a ride!!!!!

Offline Rubberhead

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Re: Fact or Friction
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2014, 04:29:10 PM »
I may be missing something but I'm guessing that the viscosity measuring methodology is different for cold oil versus hot oil? If the 30 in 10W-30 means 30 seconds, then what does the 10 represent; 10 minutes???

Offline oldskool49

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Re: Fact or Friction
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2014, 08:50:01 PM »
I may be missing something but I'm guessing that the viscosity measuring methodology is different for cold oil versus hot oil? If the 30 in 10W-30 means 30 seconds, then what does the 10 represent; 10 minutes???

10W-30. the 10 is the viscosity rating on cold weather, and the 30 for warm. The "W" is for winter.
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Offline Rubberhead

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Re: Fact or Friction
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2014, 04:07:38 AM »
I may be missing something but I'm guessing that the viscosity measuring methodology is different for cold oil versus hot oil? If the 30 in 10W-30 means 30 seconds, then what does the 10 represent; 10 minutes???

10W-30. the 10 is the viscosity rating on cold weather, and the 30 for warm. The "W" is for winter.

Right, I get that but what does the 10 represent; seconds, minutes, hours or something else entirely. If 30 is 30 seconds for warm oil, then you would think that the number for winter oil would be higher since the colder oil would be thicker and would flow slower. I'm just trying to understand the disparity between the numbers.

Offline oldskool49

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Re: Fact or Friction
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2014, 07:47:03 AM »
I may be missing something but I'm guessing that the viscosity measuring methodology is different for cold oil versus hot oil? If the 30 in 10W-30 means 30 seconds, then what does the 10 represent; 10 minutes???

10W-30. the 10 is the viscosity rating on cold weather, and the 30 for warm. The "W" is for winter.

Right, I get that but what does the 10 represent; seconds, minutes, hours or something else entirely. If 30 is 30 seconds for warm oil, then you would think that the number for winter oil would be higher since the colder oil would be thicker and would flow slower. I'm just trying to understand the disparity between the numbers.

The 10  represents 10 seconds. I have read and re-read and read again. And in my mind the cold number should be higher, but ???  Would like to see a video discussion from SAE. Don't know if I would understand their jargon or not, but.  This does shed some light on oil change mileage and syn v regular oil.
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Offline Rubberhead

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Re: Fact or Friction
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2014, 03:51:16 PM »
I had a chance to do a little reading on it today and found this:

Quote
When you see a W on a viscosity rating it means that this oil viscosity has been tested at a Colder temperature. The numbers without the W are all tested at 210° F or 100° C which is considered an approximation of engine operating temperature. In other words, a SAE 30 motor oil is the same viscosity as a 10w-30 or 5W-30 at 210° (100° C). The difference is when the viscosity is tested at a much colder temperature. For example, a 5W-30 motor oil performs like a SAE 5 motor oil would perform at the cold temperature specified, but still has the SAE 30 viscosity at 210° F (100° C) which is engine operating temperature. This allows the engine to get quick oil flow when it is started cold verses dry running until lubricant either warms up sufficiently or is finally forced through the engine oil system. The advantages of a low W viscosity number is obvious. The quicker the oil flows cold, the less dry running. Less dry running means much less engine wear.
http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/

This makes much more sense to me and there's more at the link. I learned something here; thanks!

Offline oldskool49

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Re: Fact or Friction
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2014, 09:45:37 PM »
Team work, Thanks               ;D
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Offline Large_time

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Re: Fact or Friction
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2014, 07:40:38 AM »
Good read!
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