Topic: Salty the Smoke Farmer, 1929 Ford Truck Build

[Large_time]

So,

About a year ago I decided I wanted to build a Rat Rod, started learning as much as I could in my spare time. I was in the middle of another truck (Hummer H1 in the pics) as a hauler and toy truck. So, today I picked this beautiful truck up.... Well sort of truck... The Truck is titled as a truck but it was originally a sedan... still has the rear fenders and a fairly decent hack job on the back half of the cab... new metal is in order for sure.

I drove 190 miles to pick it up and on the way back I decided to name him/her (undecided) Mr. Salty the Smoke Farmer.

Salty = I want the look of a salt racer truck. (Low/Big Engine/Some Cowl/Some history behind it)

Smoke = I have a Cummins 6BT (160HP) that came out of a Ford F600 or F700 and it will be gracing the frame rails... It even has a Ford Data Plate adding to the cool factor.... Sooo, yeah, Fuel Screw...Cranked up...Smoke on.

Farmer = Believe it or not, I am the second owner of this truck... It sort of passed into the hands of the guy I bought it from but... never changed the name on the title... So I am claiming that.. Ha Ha.. The guy was a farmer 3 miles down the road from where I bought it....

So, couple things on the trip home besides the thumbs up and stares.

Im North of Detroit and there are constantly billboards for Fords around... So today on the way home with Salty, one of those electronic billboards flashed a Ford advertisement "Still making them since 1928"...with a damn Model A Ford Truck on it.... It was a pretty cool moment.

I know very little about Model A's... just to give you an idea of the lack.... I saw the brake rods/actuators in the bed of the truck... and asked the guy, "What are these?".. So yeah... Lots to learn!

So, if you missed my introduction in the New Members area, I have a little hobby Fab shop Large Time Fabrication. It went from a hobby to a every night thing... I have a regular job but it sure is nice to have fun in the shop making project for other people...Getting paid isn't bad either... You can see some of my projects at www.facebook.com/LargeTimeFab if you are interested.

I have a few random tools but the most fun one is the CNC Plasma table...its a beast 5'X10' cutting area and a Hypertherm 45 that does the work on the steel. (American Made)

I need to unload Salty into the shop and carefully craft my work list.

Ill be building a frame from 1/4" 4"x2" tubing with all kinds of other stuff I plan on making to assist in the Low Down look of the truck.

the vision I have for this truck is a caged, chopped, channeled, static dropped beast.... But you know how things go... That all could change.

Now on to the reason you guys clicked the post... PICTURES!


***Can anyone see what the first word is on the tailgate, Something Service****

[lowboy]

good find and one hell of a story to go with the build  love the tow hauler  worked on the Army version 

[obama]

Great look'n truck there.
Nice to have ya on board.  The plywood back, and the great bed on the back may indicate it was once a four door sedan, can't tell from here.  Trucks were more use-full and were allowed more gas during the rationing years. I may even have a truck backside around, but it wouldn't be in very good shape.
Either way look's like a fun project.

[miraclepieco]

I love your old truck. I'd be tempted to leave the wooden back on it - there's some history and character right there! The box looks like a Model T 'cause the fender mounts are farther forward than an A.  Be sure and keep us updated.

[JD55F100]

Thats going to be a nice ride and i like your tow rig also......I would make a driver and drive the shit out of it....

[hotwheels]

That there is a great start. I love how you came up with the name for her. That ford is gonna be a great build, congrats.

[Large_time]

So, tonight I used my seamanship skills like a bad ass and had the tilted trailer ease the truck off the bed... had a few turns on the front tie down and eased her back like a ship in the wind.

Took the wheels off, and looked around a bit...Making a game plan for taking this beast part.

I do love the look of wood and the history behind it but... Its gotta go. Although it would make the chop top a bit easier. There is something unsettling about welding in a new back cab and then cutting out a chunk of it to chop it.

I appreciate the comments about the truck, its cool to know you guys are looking over the build from all over this great country.

A quick note on the American Flag flying in my garage... 

When I bought my first house down in Detroit I found this box in my attic after I had moved in, I brought it downstairs and opened up something that I will never forget.

It was a box full of the life and story of a PFC Snyder who had been KIA during Vietnam.

I have his dog tags, discharge papers, shadow box, medals (the good ones), and all of the letters he wrote to his family from that time in his life.... its crazy some of the stuff he writes about, the conditions, the abundance of beer and lack of good water. He also took some great pictures right up to the day before he died. By looking at the dates on the slides the camera came back to the family undeveloped and they had them developed immediately after his funeral.

GREAT pictures, bombed out airfields, choppers in the back and the classic ammo draped over the shirtless GI... some great stuff taken from the air also.

So, that flag that hangs in my garage is in honor of that PFC and all the Americans that served with him during Vietnam... Its his flag from the box, and he hopefully is looking down watching over me and my shop. Most of his family has passed away, we bought the house from his sister who had kept the box until she passed away....

If you guys are interested, I can post up some scans of the letters and a few of the best slides.

Now back to Rat Roddin...

Here are a few pics from tonight... Am I the only one that thinks a 30 day warranty on a battery is a CROCK... I couldn't believe that dang thing.... And a few parts I hope to incorporate into the build.

[obama]

Great parts there for a Ford A guy that's doing a restore, those plugs, if they are Champion 3x were around $30.00 each round here, heater, door hardware ect. you got some stuff to pedal to cover the cost of a good battery, or.....
That also looks like an original seat for a sedan.
Thank you for your service, and the tribute to those before, "Nam" took some of my family, and a lot of others.
Keep us posted on the progress.

[Large_time]

Great parts there for a Ford A guy that's doing a restore, those plugs, if they are Champion 3x were around $30.00 each round here, heater, door hardware ect. you got some stuff to pedal to cover the cost of a good battery, or.....
That also looks like an original seat for a sedan.
Thank you for your service, and the tribute to those before, "Nam" took some of my family, and a lot of others.
Keep us posted on the progress.

I still am thinking of a way to make this truck a memorial to one or all... not too sure just yet.

Funny you should say that about the parts... A guy stopped by the shop today that was rebuilding his, I had cut him a custom BBQ brand and he was picking it up... His jaw dropped when I told him I had some sedan fenders for sale and pretty much that entire table full of parts.... I also got 2 powder coat jobs from him so WIN WIN for Large Time Fabrication!

I pulled out the Cummins and blew some of the dust off it.

The powder Coat pile is getting higher...

Just measuring the length of the 6BT... That cab is going to have to move back quite a bit... and when that happens, the bed is going to have to be chopped down.

I had a cover on the Cummins because running the CNC Plasma is a smoke making, dust creating monster and ill be honest here... its a bit intimidating seeing the sheer size of that engine again... But its the challenge that I like.

Tonight was a thinking night, feet up, making some plans over a few beers....












 

[lowboy]

kool pix and thanks for the history of the flag My uncle Tracy died a Marine PFC in 'Nam during the Tet offensive I was 4 but i remember his funeral

[miraclepieco]

Well, that's one way to lower it   

If you're looking to make it memorable, that diesel engine should help.

[Greybeards Customs]

That is and will be a very cool truck , I look forward to watching it come together .

[hotwheels]

wow, i can't believe how complete that is.......should make for a schweet build.

[Large_time]

Thanks Fellas!

I got the Oxy/Fuel Tanks filled today for those cranky bolts...

Ive been reading up on building a chassis... so many mad scientist out there on these forums! I love it.

Working mid-nights doesn't help with working on Salty.

My plan has gone back and forth between 3/16" and 1/4" steel tubing for the frame, and for a few minutes after reading about how some others have boxed their model A frames... I thought I may be able to slide with just boxing it and adding some cross-members.... BUT... What is the point of that!

Has anyone here seen a Model A truck with a 6BT in it? I have seen a 4BT but that 6BT is a tad bit bigger.

Not that it matters to me, I'm sure I not the first second or third to do it.... but a picture of one could be pretty helpful in positioning the cab.

So, for the time being I plan on getting the truck down to parade rest and evaluating the look of the 19" wheels and picking tires so I can get that all magical (Butterfly Wings and Fairy Dust) number for my static ride height... I hate math, but don't want to screw this up.

[miraclepieco]

My plan has gone back and forth between 3/16" and 1/4" steel tubing for the frame, and for a few minutes after reading about how some others have boxed their model A frames... I thought I may be able to slide with just boxing it and adding some cross-members.... BUT... What is the point of that!

You brought up one of my pet peeves: the increasing rat rodder tendency to overbuild rather than simply properly engineer their frames. The semi-truck frame rail that I have been hacking up to fabricate many parts for my last two builds is 1/4" C-channel (not even box tube!): this is for a FORTY TON truck with over ONE THOUSAND foot-pounds torque that will travel ONE MILLION MILES in it's lifetime. Why in the hell are rat rodders making 1/4" box tube frame rails with 1/4" fish plates on top of that for a car that will weigh less than 3000 lbs??? There seems to be an attitude that if THICK is good then THICKER is better and TOO THICK is just right! I guess it's monkey-see, monkey-do. My current frame is 1/8" rectangular tube with 1/8" fish plates at the junctions - that's combined 1/4" at the critical stress points (3/16" on the front tube). That is more than enough for the light duty use that these cars get (unless of course you are Greybeard with a big block blower motor  )  But even Top Fuel dragsters use 1 3/8 x .058 round tube, proving that with proper engineering there's no need to overkill on the material.

[Large_time]

My plan has gone back and forth between 3/16" and 1/4" steel tubing for the frame, and for a few minutes after reading about how some others have boxed their model A frames... I thought I may be able to slide with just boxing it and adding some cross-members.... BUT... What is the point of that!

You brought up one of my pet peeves: the increasing rat rodder tendency to overbuild rather than simply properly engineer their frames. The semi-truck frame rail that I have been hacking up to fabricate many parts for my last two builds is 1/4" C-channel (not even box tube!): this is for a FORTY TON truck with over ONE THOUSAND foot-pounds torque that will travel ONE MILLION MILES in it's lifetime. Why in the hell are rat rodders making 1/4" box tube frame rails with 1/4" fish plates on top of that for a car that will weigh less than 3000 lbs??? There seems to be an attitude that if THICK is good then THICKER is better and TOO THICK is just right! I guess it's monkey-see, monkey-do. My current frame is 1/8" rectangular tube with 1/8" fish plates at the junctions - that's combined 1/4" at the critical stress points (3/16" on the front tube). That is more than enough for the light duty use that these cars get (unless of course you are Greybeard with a big block blower motor  )  But even Top Fuel dragsters use 1 3/8 x .058 round tube, proving that with proper engineering there's no need to overkill on the material.

Thats funny, I really didn't select the 1/4" or the 3/16" tubing for the reasons that everyone else is doing it. I did it because it's my build and it will showcase my shops ability. And honestly, I would rather chew through 3/16" steel than a 1/4" piece any day....

I love Pet Peeves, I have a few of my own... The word "Savory" when referring to anything I cook... and a few more....

I am no engineering expert, so why not over engineer it.... its going to have some pretty damn precious cargo in it with an 1100 pound engine in it... and that is the dry weight! Im sure you know, most small blocks weigh half that.

Your dead right on fishplates... you wont see those on my build... 

Come on man, cut me a break, How am I supposed to run the coolant to the rear mounted radiator if the frame isnt tubing?

C-Channel wont work for me on the coolant flow or intercooler idea I have nor will it be able to hide the brake/fuel lines.... All ideas now on the whiteboard but not possible without tubing.

***OPINION ALERT***

I think you seeing more being built out of 1/4" is because some of the guys building these rat rods want them to be safe and clean with ground down welds and they may not be feeling too confident about their welding skills and penetration. I applaud those guys! Living life LARGE!

[miraclepieco]

***OPINION ALERT***
I think you seeing more being built out of 1/4" is because some of the guys building these rat rods want them to be safe and clean with ground down welds and they may not be feeling too confident about their welding skills and penetration. I applaud those guys! Living life LARGE!

Thicker metal ain't gunna help if the weld doesn't penetrate it   

Please don't misunderstand, I'm not recommending C-channel. It just happens that semi-trucks run C-channel frames and you won't get more weight, power and miles than that. It just illustrates how overbuilt some cars are in comparison.

1100 lb engine?  Yeah, use the THICK STUFF! 

[hotwheels]

Great discussion. I personally look at building a frame from scratch with ease of build and weld penetration. I like 2X3X3/16 or 2X3X.120" wall (11-gauge, or 1/8"). Same would go with round tubing if you were building a round tube chassis. Anything thicker and you are wasting precious money, in my humble opinion.

My opinion on fish plating, I use it. I only use fish plating where i can't get a gusset welded in, say where you Z the front or rear of the frame. Fish plating can be used in these area's instead of gussets to give you room for a truck cab. There are allot of different thoughts on fish plating, but if you have a piece of 3/16" plate steel laying around, why not? It's a small piece of metal which adds allot of strength. Again, this is just my thought on fish plating.

I also will box in a frame depending on budgets. If you have a frame that is in good condition and you are wanting to keep a some what stock look, then box in the frame. Boxing a frame is done for strength. The original motors for these car's and truck we build had horsepower ratings up to say 45hp. Now we are placing motors that have 200+ hp. So boxing is a must. You can still Z the frame front and rear, box and be done.

S10 frames, here to tell ya, shouldn't be used on this year of a cab. It will not fit. The cab is to narrow to fit around the bend in the frame where the tranny mounts. You can force it to fit with allot of fab work. With the amount of work involved, you'll be better off building from scratch. S10 frames are better for car's of the 40's +, nothing below.

In the end, remember: have fun. Don't let all the different idea's out there discourage your build idea's. This is your build, your thoughts, idea's, etc...it's a piece of art. So many builds nowadays are starting to look like cookie cutter pieces, they are all the same. I try to stay out of the norm and build my rides so you can take em out and enjoy them all year round.

[Large_time]

I'm totally digging that last paragraph you wrote Hotwheels! I always enjoy others ideas. ill never claim to be the smartest guy in the room. I have always felt that I was blessed with more common sense than most people, I found myself scratching my head wondering how people got along in life with some of the antics and logic people have over the years.... Common sense isn't so common these days. I wont let a little comment discourage me or sway me or get me upset.

I actually came to this forum after reading a lot and trying some other forums.... Bottom line... You guys don't suck at Rat Rod Nation!

And I know I need a place like this to share and catalog my build partly for fun, nostalgia and for your simple enjoyment.... And maybe one day it might inspire some random guy or gal to grab a torch, a pocket full of cash and build their own piece of art.

Projects are good for the soul said a really close friend of mine as I was telling them about my desire to have something in the shop to work on.... I thought about that tonight as I was sweating from ripping out rotted wood and pulling countless nails that some old timer painstakingly had driven or screwed in to transform this coupe into a truck.... It was a good feeling.

A feeling of nostalgia was in the garage tonight as I wondered what conversations were had over this big sheet of galvanized that made this cab into a truck. What was the weather like, what was on the radio as the torch separated the cab from the fenders.

The men or women that made this sedan into a truck did it for good reason, more gas rations. You can also tell that they cared about the truck lasting. They used stainless screws against the body, had rubber insulating under the seats, screen to go between the seams and they chose galvanized steel for the roof.... They were thinkers, not short cut takers.

I wondered if I would have had that much forethought to use stainless or galvanized to make it last many years to come.... its a stark comparison to the throw away generation some of us have become... if you don't think we have, take a look at what people put out by the trash on trash day.... tons of good stuff.... so much so that people have started cruising in trucks the day before trash pick up... its crazy but its happening all over.

So, tonight, I claw hammered through the back galvanized and got that plywood out of there... ( you can see how it ripped it in the pics...

but before that, I used the trusty Oxy torch to remove the bed. 2 big bolts and 2 bolt heads and it popped off smoking like crazy.... good thing I was prepared with a fire extinguisher....OK, you got me... I used a bottle of Windex to cool the burning timber under the bed... ill be more prepared next time...

The seats are out, (Anyone need some?) and all of the plywood flooring is out also. What a mess that was.

I did not find one alive bug today... its the weirdest thing... I thought with all that wood rot, it would be chock full of flying insects waiting to bite me... (I hate bugs) but none were located.

I found a few brass buttons you will see in the pictures, not sure what they came off of.

I started out strong today, I started sandblasting the 19" Model A wheels I have... so I could powder coat them... planned on either red or blue with a Glow in the dark additive... but then after about an hour of sandblasting... I completely switched gears and decided I would sandblast and powder coat the 6 valve covers for the Cummins. They are a metallic Soldier Blue... with a blue glow in the dark additive... not glowing yet as it hasn't seen the sun.

The frame is looking good so far, what I can see of it.

Last night at work I asked my buddies (Craigslist Hounds) to find me a fire extinguisher... and one guy said, "I got one of those, it was my Uncles. You can have it".... Boom... Added to the truck... and its awesome to boot!

The next move will be to remove the cab from the frame and start sourcing a back half....
on to the pictures.

[miraclepieco]

Wow...you are committed now!   

[Rubberhead]

Large_time, that was a beautiful post - some really great thoughts! And thanks for all of the pics.

[hotwheels]

Great post, Great pics......Let the build begin.

[miraclepieco]

Oh, the stories that Model A could tell!  It's a survivor; do it proud.

[Large_time]

Well, the cab is off. That was fun.

I took the headlamps off, and they are surprisingly in good shape. The bolts didn't even need the torch to help them off.

I picked up a pyro gauge today for the Cummins, have a few mounting ideas for it, up top or in the dash where the old gauges were... im liking the top spot but that will require more fab work.

The torch had some time with Salty today, the truck cab was bolted through the frame with some serious lag bolts and they melted just like the rest of them.

I drained the gas tank but I was still a little nervous using the torch around it... That would have been the end of Salty.... And probably me... All I could think about was someone telling me a full sealed gas tank is safer than a completely empty one.... But I survived... And honestly, the tank was far, far away from the heat affected area.

After about an hour in the sandblaster I realized that the job of cleaning up these 19" wheels was better left to the professionals.... So 60 bucks and 40 minutes later I had a set of bare steel wheels. With no paint, I found some missing steel and a little baby crack.... Welded those little problems up and ground them fairly back to stock shape.

I had the idea to leave the wheels bare steel, instead of a color because I cannot decide between blue or red.... So, its about 90 outside, I go inside to use the bathroom (wheels out of the garage) I hear a huge thunder clap and it starts pouring rain.... No more bare steel... Guess they were destined to be a bit rusty... I'm thinking a clear over the rust that has built up will be a nice look. I like the look of that outside weld bead also... not to mention it will be tough to grind that one down.

I stopped by the local wheel shop and they were trying their best to discourage me from using the stock wheels... they all looked decent on the balancer, a little wobble but nothing crazy. They sure wanted to sell me some 20's to put on it after I showed them the pics of it in the garage... NOT HAPPENING... at least not yet. ha ha

I text my buddy this first picture after I had it all apart... he said "Congrats, now it's junk"... HA HA.. funny but sort of true... Such a long road ahead of me with Salty... A long enjoyable one with small successes motivating me along.






































































So.... I'm to that point where I need to locate that back half of a truck or pull the trigger and buy new stuff.

[miraclepieco]

Good find on the cracks.

I've done that a few times: turn a whole complete car that's worth a few thousand dollars into a pile parts that's worth a few hundred dollars      Oh well, I have confidence you'll put 'er back together better than ever!